Hi folks - Cleaning Talk - Professional Cleaning and Restoration Forum

Peerless · 10-06-2006, 09:33 AM

Nice forum! I stumbled into one of dons links. Yep its his fault

My first question is...What size diameter hose should I use with a shurflo setup?

I thought I would get a laugh out of you!

**Nathan** · 10-06-2006, 09:43 AM

Welcome to the site Peerless... where are you located?

Peerless · 10-06-2006, 01:30 PM

I am located in Valrico FL. Just outside of Tampa in the Brandon area.
I'm another bleach monkey looking for new ideas and methods

FCPWLLC · 10-06-2006, 01:43 PM

Welcome to the site.

**Nathan** · 10-06-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerless

I am located in Valrico FL. Just outside of Tampa in the Brandon area.
I'm another bleach monkey looking for new ideas and methods

Lots of guys from Florida. I just moved from there in November. Lived in Clermont.

All Seasons Exteriors · 10-06-2006, 09:02 PM

Hi Thomas,

Glad you staggered in the back door.....

Thad · 10-06-2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerless

Nice forum! I stumbled into one of dons links. Yep its his fault

My first question is...What size diameter hose should I use with a shurflo setup?

I thought I would get a laugh out of you!

I larfed!

Keth · 10-07-2006, 08:30 PM

I am no bleach monkey but it all depends on the pump you use.

I have a sureflo 1.8gpm and 60 psi and 3/8th inch hose works just fine.

All Seasons Exteriors · 10-07-2006, 09:46 PM

3/8" works fine on almost anything......Why is it used on 8 gpm pw'ers?

Newbies need to learn how to use the 'search' button before swallowing the most available bait.

By the way.......I'm no 'bleach monkey' either.

Peerless · 10-12-2006, 11:28 PM

Well, you sling bleach all day and climb ladders...hence "bleach monkey"

Think I need a new mask. Working on a huge steep tile and my mask must have gave out. Feel the love in my throat...cant sleep. New filters asap

Got pics...try to get some up. Been busy and I basically fall over after 11pm so no love letters from muaaa.

Stay safe

Apple Roof Cleaning · 11-05-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Seasons Exteriors

3/8" works fine on almost anything......Why is it used on 8 gpm pw'ers?

Newbies need to learn how to use the 'search' button before swallowing the most available bait.

By the way.......I'm no 'bleach monkey' either.

A pressure washing pump can easily develop 3000 psi, or more.
Therefore the pressure loss inherent in a long run of small diameter hose don't matter much.

A Shurflo, Delevan, or FloJet pump maybe has 60 psi, max.
Therefore, there is no pressure to "give away"

A long run, say 300 feet of 3/8 hose, on a 3 to 5 gpm shurfo, flojet, or delevan pump can cause a pressure loss of 40 psi, or even more!

I will post a flow calculator if you like ....

**t.peterson** · 11-05-2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerless

Think I need a new mask. Working on a huge steep tile and my mask must have gave out. Feel the love in my throat...cant sleep. New filters asap

Welcome to the site and please be careful - I know that feeling well and it is not a nice one

All Seasons Exteriors · 11-05-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple Roof Cleaning

I will post a flow calculator if you like ....

Feel free.

So, how many of you guys/gals out there are using 3/8" hose? We've used it all along on the 12v setup and we use 1/2" with the gas-powered John Blue pumps.

Are any of you guys/gals actually running 300' of 3/8" for a 12v setup?

Apple Roof Cleaning · 11-06-2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Seasons Exteriors

Feel free.

So, how many of you guys/gals out there are using 3/8" hose? We've used it all along on the 12v setup and we use 1/2" with the gas-powered John Blue pumps.

Are any of you guys/gals actually running 300' of 3/8" for a 12v setup?

Ok, you asked for ithttp://www.connel.com/freeware/flowcalc1.shtml

This flow calculator is being kind, it is for straight pipe instead of coiled hose.
Coiled hose has even more pressure loss then straight pipe, another reason I encourage users of 3/8 hose to uncoil it on every job, until they upgrade to a less restrictive, larger diameter hose.

Lets work the calculator for a common pump, a 3.6 GPM 45 psi shurflo, and 200 feet of 3/8 pipe.

here is the result

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 3.6
pipe size in: 3/8
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 6.0462
Reynold's Number: 27066.1102
friction factor fa: 0.0318
friction factor f: 0.0314
head loss ft: 86.7056
pressure loss psi: 37.4973
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

As can clearly be seen in the example above, we have just lost 37.4973 PSI !

Now, lets work the same thing for the 1.8 gpm flow of the small shurflo

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 1.8
pipe size in: 3/8
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 3.0231
Reynold's Number: 13533.0551
friction factor fa: 0.0345
friction factor f: 0.0342
head loss ft: 23.6418
pressure loss psi: 10.2243
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

We have only lost 10.2243 PSI in 3/8 hose with the small shurflo.

BTW, I took the liberty of working the calculator for 300 feet of 3/8 hose, and the flow loss is only 15 PSI.

The actual loss will be more in coiled hose then straight pipe, but one can get the idea.

This all means that the HIGHER the flow, the bigger hose you need to prevent pressure loss.

It means Don, that YOU are correct that a 3/8 hose will work fine, on a small 1.8 GPM pump.
The small amount of pressure loss is not really enough to worry about.

It also means that I too am correct about suggesting larger diameter hose for higher GPM pumps.

Apple Roof Cleaning · 11-06-2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Seasons Exteriors

Feel free.

So, how many of you guys/gals out there are using 3/8" hose? We've used it all along on the 12v setup and we use 1/2" with the gas-powered John Blue pumps.

Are any of you guys/gals actually running 300' of 3/8" for a 12v setup?

This really is a continuation of my last post.
This web site will only take a limited amount of graphics.

Lets look at 300 feet of 3/8 hose on a 1.8 GPM shurflo pump, and see how much pressure loss it causes.

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 1.8
pipe size in: 3/8
pipe length ft: 300
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 3.0231
Reynold's Number: 13533.0551
friction factor fa: 0.0345
friction factor f: 0.0342
head loss ft: 35.4627
pressure loss psi: 15.3364
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

Now, lets look at the same 1.8 GPM pump hooked up to 1/2 inch hose

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 1.8
pipe size in: 1/2
pipe length ft: 300
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 1.9032
Reynold's Number: 10737.6171
friction factor fa: 0.0348
friction factor f: 0.0345
head loss ft: 11.2434
pressure loss psi: 4.8624
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

As can clearly be seen we only lose 4.8624 PSI with 1/2 inch hose, compared to 15.3364 of pressure loss with the same length of 3/8 hose.

Whether or not a loss of about 11 psi is important or not is up to you, but remember, with a 1.8 GPM Shurflo Pump, you only have 60 PSI to start with.

In the next post, we will look at the effects of hose pressure loss in the very popular new 5.3 GPM Delevan pump that both Don and I have been recommending.

Apple Roof Cleaning · 11-06-2006, 02:50 AM

The Delevan 5800 series pump that both Don and I have been suggesting is a 5.3 GPM pump.

Let's see how much pressure we lose at 200 feet of say 3/8 hose ?

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 5.3
pipe size in: 3/8
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 8.9013
Reynold's Number: 39847.3289
friction factor fa: 0.0309
friction factor f: 0.0303
head loss ft: 181.5523
pressure loss psi: 78.5153
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

Now, lets look at 1/2 inch hose ?

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 5.3
pipe size in: 1/2
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 5.6038
Reynold's Number: 31616.3169
friction factor fa: 0.0301
friction factor f: 0.0296
head loss ft: 55.7153
pressure loss psi: 24.0950
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

Now, lets go to 3/4 inch hose ?

The Fluid Flow Calculator
This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 5.3
pipe size in: 3/4
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 3.1951
Reynold's Number: 23873.5454
friction factor fa: 0.0297
friction factor f: 0.0293
head loss ft: 13.5458
pressure loss psi: 5.8581
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

Unfortunately, this free online flow loss calculator goes from 1/2 to 3/4, and does not provide a calculation for 5/8 hose, but I think all can get the idea ?

Big hose is always a little better, even with lower GPM pumps.
With higher GPM pumps, big hose is a LOT better.

The flow loss calculator predicts that the Delevan 5800 series pump, equippped with 5/8 or 3/4 hose will be a good performer.

As good as a John Blue ... Not in this lifetime!

Why ?
Because the new John Blue pump has 250 PSI to "push" it's flow through the hose to the nozzle.

The little Delevan 5800 only has 60 PSI.

The 5800 series Delevan is a good pump, but it is no match for the new John Blue, even with larger diameter hose.

I have some concerns about using two of these pumps in tandem as well.

60 PSI is not a lot of PSI to "move" the 10 GPM's of flow because Pressure Losses multiply as the GPM is increased.

Lets take a look ?

The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 10
pipe size in: 1/2
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 10.5731
Reynold's Number: 59653.4282
friction factor fa: 0.0287
friction factor f: 0.0280
head loss ft: 187.8423
pressure loss psi: 81.2355
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

See what I mean !!!!
Now, lets take a look at 3/4 hose with the same 10 GPM ?
The Fluid Flow Calculator This is your input:
fluid: 0 % solution
fluid temp F: 80F
flow rate GPM: 10
pipe size in: 3/4
pipe length ft: 200
pipe material: S
These are the results:
velocity ft per second: 6.0286
Reynold's Number: 45044.4254
friction factor fa: 0.0277
friction factor f: 0.0272
head loss ft: 44.6986
pressure loss psi: 19.3306
flow calculator developed by Michael J. Rocchetti PE
Back to the Calculator

From this, it can clearly be seen that one will NEED 3/4 hose, OR larger with the dual 5800 series Delevan pumps.

Peerless · 11-06-2006, 11:27 AM

bro let em run 3/8 hoses with straight love. who cares. beating a dead horse now. he just proved it by saying he uses 1/2 on his big 4gpm pump.

1/2 or + is > than any 3/8 ever could dream of

at this point who cares? make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$

gotta go shoot a pool cage :/

Apple Roof Cleaning · 11-06-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerless

bro let em run 3/8 hoses with straight love. who cares. beating a dead horse now. he just proved it by saying he uses 1/2 on his big 4gpm pump.

1/2 or + is > than any 3/8 ever could dream of

at this point who cares? make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$

gotta go shoot a pool cage :/

Got 5 to do today, and 7 calls already!
Man, all those repeat customers are coming home, just like pigeon's.
Got a big commercial thing possibly happening too, guy called us for a bid.
Turns out, we have a huge IN with the management company in charge of the project!
The big condo job in St Pete I told you about we just did was this same company!

They actually sent us a glowing reference letter.

Maybe we will get this big job ?

Peerless · 11-06-2006, 04:20 PM

damn, wish I had five to do mang. i need one of those days. havent had a fiver in a year i would bet:( i used to POUND the pavement..now i tell myself I will sell during normal excursions out of the house LOL not gonna work!

having the family over for turkey day and christmas dinner and I want to dump all my money into a flatbed for my truck and big assed apple tank or two small tanks so i would have three!

AINT GONNA HAPPEN:(

well at least I have a nice big hoa gig coming up. Wife and kid have really got all my attention and my biz is paying for it.

Apple Roof Cleaning · 11-06-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peerless

damn, wish I had five to do mang. i need one of those days. havent had a fiver in a year i would bet:( i used to POUND the pavement..now i tell myself I will sell during normal excursions out of the house LOL not gonna work!

having the family over for turkey day and christmas dinner and I want to dump all my money into a flatbed for my truck and big assed apple tank or two small tanks so i would have three!

AINT GONNA HAPPEN:(

well at least I have a nice big hoa gig coming up. Wife and kid have really got all my attention and my biz is paying for it.

I am BEAT bro, five down today!
Chuck had some really good strong Love, only went 35 percent today on mix, worked fine.

Got us a good Cuban sandwich, and a Deviled Crab at Brocato's, YUM!

I haven't checked my voicemail yet, but we are quickly booking up as we near Thanksgiving.