Hello Grease Buddies!! - Page 2 - Cleaning Talk - Professional Cleaning and Restoration Forum

Thad · 08-15-2006, 03:08 PM

I hear ya.

Like I said, big Ifs, Ands, and Buts.

russ s · 08-15-2006, 07:04 PM

like i was saying the site where the original problem started had every right to handle the situation the way they saw fit .....but where i am a mod i dont think the situation was handled like the administrator would have wanted .....the problem should not have got personal and followed him that is why i defended him

EnviroClean · 08-15-2006, 10:19 PM

It's Over!!!

**Nathan** · 08-16-2006, 01:42 AM

I really have no idea what this conversation is about?

Anyways, let's keep other user's and/or site's problems off this site. When you come here you start with a clean slate and as for other sites and how they are run lets just try to learn and keep this site running well.

Sorry, I've been out for about a week and just trying to get caught up. Not sure if I'm getting this thread or not but feel free to clue me in.

Thanks.

EnviroClean · 08-16-2006, 10:32 AM

Nathan,
Thanks for the board!! There is a growing number of us who are switching over here because free expression and differing opinions are permitted. To bring you up to speed...In a nutshell, I was

for having a different opinion about the

org. The site owner has a history of coming down hard on anyone who does not agree with his or her cliques or association membership.

I am just the latest to be sanctioned and punished for not going with the flow is all.

**Nathan** · 08-16-2006, 04:18 PM

Ah... sorry I'm not running on much sleep after the baby so my brain is only half working

At first i thought people were attacking you for something you did on another site which isn't right so I wanted to say something. Now I understand.

As for censorship, I've said this before but I'll say it again. We make it very clear to anyone who wants to sponsor one of our websites that we will not censor what people say about them. Their product or service needs to stand on it's own.
And as for people agreeing with me... I could care less. The only thing I do care about is people following the rules and treating others with respect.

That's my point of view anyways...

Thanks for clearing it up.

russ s · 08-17-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Ah... sorry I'm not running on much sleep after the baby so my brain is only half working

At first i thought people were attacking you for something you did on another site which isn't right so I wanted to say something. Now I understand.

As for censorship, I've said this before but I'll say it again. We make it very clear to anyone who wants to sponsor one of our websites that we will not censor what people say about them. Their product or service needs to stand on it's own.
And as for people agreeing with me... I could care less. The only thing I do care about is people following the rules and treating others with respect.

That's my point of view anyways...

Thanks for clearing it up.

that is excellebnt ,so many time administrators of forums try to "keep the sponsors happy" if there product does not speak for itself then they need to know so they can either make changes of find a way to make the customer happy,it should provide a win -win situation for the administrator and the manufacturer and forum member .not the opposite where no one is learning except how to keep the board administrator making money ........ i like your way Nathan ......its really the only way ...... good job

Mike Williamson · 08-17-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressurePros

Nothing but trouble this kid is....

We're sorry due to technical circumstances beyod our control you are BANNED FOR LIFE!

I despise censorship.

So should I be allowed to stand on your front lawn at 3:00am and scream obscenities? I mean, I have a right to speak my mind in whatever way I see fit, right?

Mike Williamson · 08-17-2006, 10:16 PM

without re-hashing it all again, all I'll say is that's not the way it happened...people speak out against the PWNA all the time without censorship or discipline.

The infraction system doesn't change th rules, it simply makes it easier to keep track of the troubled children.

Karvonen's Pro Clean · 08-17-2006, 10:46 PM

WELL.......UMMMM.............ACTUALLY............. .......

I have had posted deleted or should I say removed from public view because I spoke out about the PWNA.Let's not forget that I was forced out of a moderators position for that very reason.I also believe someone in the PWNA pushed the issue with the Admin.I do not contribute as often as I used to because I have come to the conclusion my insight is not as welcome as it once was.
I personally think the infraction thing is silly.Why not ban anyone who has ever pi$$ed of the Admin in the past and be done with it?The world is not a real good,feel good place and neither is BBS land.The Micro management and constant scrutiny make it difficult to have a healthy debate.
I can only imagine what is said behind the scenes in the MOD forum.

For those who don't know.......the Admins and Mods can communicate behind the scenes on these type BBS,out of public view.

Jason the PWNA debate has been going on for years.It's always the same thing over and over.You're just the newest guy to get caught up in the gauntlet.

Thad · 08-17-2006, 11:13 PM

All of this summarizes why I have stayed away from moderated forums until now. Unfortunately there are no cleaning-type newsgroups in the alt. hierarchy in Usenet.

Jon F · 08-17-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Williamson

without re-hashing it all again, all I'll say is that's not the way it happened...people speak out against the PWNA all the time without censorship or discipline.

The infraction system doesn't change th rules, it simply makes it easier to keep track of the troubled children.

Regarding said thread, I was a part of it and mentioned to Jason that the pwna had been around for 15yrs and has made little/no headway.....people that started it have started another, larger org......My post(s) regarding the subject got deleted. Mine weren't hostile, cursing, heck--I could care less about the pwna. I's just trying to advise a guy before he spent $250 since I've been around 10yrs and I've seen what has/hasn't happened.

...Like I said on PWI (for Ken, Jason, etc), if you don't like it, adapt. Change your behavior or move on. The only thing that would piss me off is if I were one of the schmucks that donated money, and now I was having to take my toys and go home,

LOL Think a donation would buy some clout

PressurePros · 08-18-2006, 06:14 AM

I haven't posted on PWI in two years so no idea what is going on there. I don't hate the PWNA, just dislike some of the members methods of operation. In everyday life they may be great guys. As far as the BBS's go, I contribute way more than enough to be considered at least a prolific member of a couple of message boards. I have not had any infractions or warnings of innapropriate material. I like to joke around and there are some that are incredibly RIGID.

Mike, when I say I despise censorship it is for guys like Jon Fife whom make good (if not often antagonist) posts and get edited. It is for mentioning in passing that Shane's screen name was chosen from a porn star and getting that deleted. I do understand that certain passions can get misconstrued and then an arguement turns into personal attack. You and I went through that, Mike. Those types of discussions are probably best left off the message boards in lieu of sugar coated, generic topic.

Mike Williamson · 08-18-2006, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressurePros

I do understand that certain passions can get misconstrued and then an arguement turns into personal attack. You and I went through that, Mike. Those types of discussions are probably best left off the message boards in lieu of sugar coated, generic topic.

Yeah, we sure did, but that was mostly just me being a jerk. I can be a REAL jerk when I get too focused on the negative aspects of life, etc...but thankfully that doesn't happed all that often, and then when it does, I have friends like you and others who kick me in the rear and tell me to shape up and knock it off.

As far as the infractions thing, nothing has really changed. The moderators/owners of the board have always given out warnings, said "Hey, don't use that language" or "if you do that one more time I'm kicking you off the board" etc. All the infraction system does is help the mods keep track of who has been warned and for what. It's just a new feature of the software that appears to be useful. It isn't for overzealous mods to hand out tickets everytime someone says something they don't agree with, and it hasn't been used that way.

Jon Fife: Your comments were along with some of the garbage Jason was posting, I assume since most of it related to the things Jason said that were removed. The thread had degenerated into a rediculous argument on whether certain spanish speaking countries south of the U.S. were part of "north america" or "central america". The thread was pruned and placed back on topic... There were other posts there that were critical of the PWNA that weren't touched...one by Ken, one by Matt Bryan, and others. To portray TGS as "pro-PWNA" and intolerant of any criticism of the organization is dishonest and unfair. If you've been "censored" for what you've said, or been talked to in private or even had your mods removed, it likely wasn't for being critical of PWNA, but more likely for how you expressed those sentiments.

If I say "I think the PWNA is a lousy organization that isn't doing crap for the industry" then that's my opinion and that's fine.

If I say " the PWNA is full of crooks and theives and the leadership is just taking advantage of the membership to line their own pockets" then that's more than just my opinion...unless I can back that up with proof. You want to make accusations that board members are swindlers, better be ready to back it up or have your post removed. I believe they call that libel. If I owned a board, and someone made libelous claims without sufficient proof, I'd remove them too.

Mike Williamson · 08-18-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karvonen's Pro Clean

The world is not a real good,feel good place and neither is BBS land.The Micro management and constant scrutiny make it difficult to have a healthy debate.

Nothing is being micromanaged...If a mod sees a problem developing, he/she deals with it, simple as that...just like you did when you were a mod. I remember being warned by you at least once for letting my jerk attitude get out of hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karvonen's Pro Clean

I can only imagine what is said behind the scenes in the MOD forum.
For those who don't know.......the Admins and Mods can communicate behind the scenes on these type BBS,out of public view.

Of course they can. There are things that have to do with board administration that should be available for public view. Just like that post I saw months ago that I wasn't supposed to have access to, that Don started about what a jerk I was, and how tired you all were of me. I seem to remember some choice comments made by you too.

As far as why your mods were removed, see my prior post...I'm pretty certain it had more to do with HOW sentiments were shared than with what you were saying.

Thad · 08-18-2006, 08:46 PM

IIRC, all I said was, "Wow, that's strong." in response to Matt's offer of a refund.
It was deleted.
Oh well....

EnviroClean · 08-19-2006, 07:30 AM

All Hail _ _ _ _ Boot Lickers!!!!

as Russ would say Sig H.

Mike Williamson · 08-19-2006, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnviroClean

All Hail Beth Boot Lickers!!!!

as Russ would say Sig H.....

Just more of the immaturity and lack of professionalism that is the root of your problems. Maybe you'll grow up one day.

All Seasons Exteriors · 08-19-2006, 08:12 AM

To all concerned:

The pot stirring and sarcasm needs to stop.

Either let it go or take it back to the place where it started.

Kory · 08-23-2006, 07:59 PM

So These moderators are like the kids at school who where the hall patrol. Grown up and still on a power trip.

I agree let that crap stay over there. Can I say Crap here? I used the "S" word with a couple $*#! in it and got my hand slapped. I will go read the rules again.