Undercutting Prices - Page 2 - Cleaning Talk - Professional Cleaning and Restoration Forum
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post #21 of Old 12-29-2009, 04:52 PM
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barebonesbiz.com

Ellen Rohr has 2 great book on how to set your rates. At present you are not makeing enough to pay for your internet service.

And you are a scab! You are preventing others from making a living doing cleaning by being so cheap! Raise your rates, if you are as good as you say, you will not notice any slow times.
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post #22 of Old 03-14-2010, 10:08 AM
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This thread is full of emotions, which is very bad for business. English is not my first language so I apologize if I lose you at some point. I've tried to get a good hold of the English language but she just doesn't like me very much. I can be an incoherent moron at times for my lack of English vocabulary.

Sorry to say this and no offense to anybody, but silverdot has billionaire blood unlike most in this thread. Now please put it down, put the gun down Cheney, we can talk about this.

Silverdot has OWNED all business owners on this thread. It's fox like him that now are millionaires, billionaires today. If he was a cleaning business in any of your towns, you'd be out of business per the comments I read on this thread. You guys spend too much time bitching and getting all worked up for nothing instead of adapting. The ones undercutting your prices obviously are very smart individuals that obviously did the foot work and are doing a good job. They are making a truck load of money and quietly expanding their businesses (without a freaking name for God's sake) like true smart/foxy businessmen/women while you are bitching about not being able to charge more, worrying about bonding, insurance, legal papers, pretty businesscards, the going rate, blah blah blah. They'll boot you out of town and then raise their prices while they keep the girl because you didn't know how to court/treat her.

Most of you guys in this thread have the wrong mentality about business and some plainly shouldn't be in business at all really. Some will no doubt will fail at some point. Businesses are for the tough and foxy, not the whiner. You have to be BOLD & RUTHLESS if you want a very successful business (learn from Simon Cowell himself). Otherwise, you can sit on your hands while silverdot is laughing all the way to the bank, or you can come here, sit and bitch about what a bad boy the silverdot type are, which is supposedly affecting your business. The Silverdot type is not affecting your business, you are, your mentality. You keep this mentality and his type will boot your business out of town soon for real. Silverdot is a very smart man. He doesn't let anything get in the way. It's little unimportant things you guys worry about that stop many startup individuals before they fire the first bullet. Like some billionaire guy once said and I am paraphrasing here "sometimes it's better to go into business as a clueless, inexperienced business person than as a high achieved biz individual" or something like that. It's people that started like Silverdot that are making headlines today. The boy will reinvent himself as he goes along. I hope you guys didn't give him nightmares with your negativity and sometimes plain nonsense and make him quit. Some of your comments are as laughable and naive as the type "please raise your prices or you will make our businesses die", as if that will fix the world. Come on guys.

You know what most of your problem is? You need to do badly some paradigm shift. It's really getting in the way. Look, search for "Paradigm Shift Bob Proctor" in Google and watch those free videos. There are like 6-7 videos. It will help many of you.

Silverdot, I'll be the bad guy on this thread and applaud you for what you are doing. If you have some cleaning biz owners asking for water by sign language on this thread, by God that can't be nothing but good to you. Keep it up. You have something special in you. Hope you file taxes though. You don't mess with the IRS.

Here are the videos and moderator feel free to delete the link if it is not allowed. I don't own that site at all and the videos are free. Just trying to help. http://www.betterdaystv.net/play.php?vid=144

I love you all.

Love,
Uncle TC

Last edited by talkcleaning; 03-14-2010 at 12:55 PM.
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post #23 of Old 03-14-2010, 06:02 PM
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wow TC,

obviously you don't understand the concept of making a profit margin to expand your business. If we all went for the undercutting prices, we'd be losing money or making well below minimum wage. How do you expect to survive, have and hire employees? From what you are saying, that means going out and finding 100 accounts just to make a profit?

That is now how it works, son. You are about as clueless as the illegal mexican or fat black woman with 9 kids at home.

Either that, or your post is a joke.
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post #24 of Old 03-14-2010, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bluehawaii07 View Post
wow TC,

obviously you don't understand the concept of making a profit margin to expand your business. If we all went for the undercutting prices, we'd be losing money or making well below minimum wage. How do you expect to survive, have and hire employees? From what you are saying, that means going out and finding 100 accounts just to make a profit?

That is now how it works, son. You are about as clueless as the illegal mexican or fat black woman with 9 kids at home.

Either that, or your post is a joke.
Ha ha ha. That bold statement above was priceless. Had me laughing for awhile.

Anyway, son? I have been 20 years in the business. You obviously didn't understand an iota of what I stated. Never said you had to go for the undercutting prices. What you need to know is how to run a business. Undercutting prices from the illegal Mexican or the fat black lady means nothing if you have a sound/smart advertising plan and great service. In this business not everybody goes for the cheap prices. It won't affect you if you'd known how to run this type of business. Obviously you don't have a clue how to run one, if you have any. You can't sit on your ass and expect money to fall from the sky anymore. Work it kid.

There are plenty of Lolas and Jesus around here doing their damage to other companies, never mine. For God's sake, I don't even see my competitors being advertised on the darn paper!! How do they expect to make any damn money! They do complain though. Ah, and eat Mcdonalds all day on them pretty vans.

Last edited by talkcleaning; 03-14-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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post #25 of Old 03-15-2010, 09:57 AM
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I don't have a huge problem with small-time cleaners making a little money off the books. Taking a handful of clients that you know or live nearby poses minimal risk to the cleaner or the client. Most cleaning co. employees I know take jobs on the side.

That said, I'd encourage a person who's starting from scratch to work for someone else for a little while to get a better sense of the work and the market and liabilities involved before trying to expand. And if you want enough business to make a living on, then I agree with all the posts about why you should go legit.

I worked for a little solo operator who specialized in getting over on the system last year. As far as I know, he was a one man show for tax and business license purposes but trolled for inexperienced workers and tax and child support dodgers to pay off the books to help him out.

He presented himself as a businessman and touted his chamber of commerce membership and city business license as proof that he was an established employer. Meanwhile, he started underbidding real cleaning services and putting one person on two-hour jobs that previously had two or more people doing them. He called his employees "contractors," giving them straight pay and leaving them liable for their own accidents and injuries and earning barely enough to get by on without paying into social security and medicare.

Thank goodness nothing ever happened to me on the job, and thank goodness I only spent a quarter at that job and was able to figure out how to report and pay the payroll stuff I ended up owing at the end of the year.

Unless you keep it very very casual and lose the attitude about getting over on the system, you're headed to becoming a predator like the guy I worked for. There are easier ways to make money than by ripping off down-and-out workers and small businesses.

Now I work for small franchise owners who pay everything they're supposed to. I get paid a lot better for the time I put in, I get more assignments, and I have the same number of solo accounts as I had with my previous "employer." Only now, the places I do myself are a third to a fourth of the size. The work's easier and I'm not spending four and five hours getting the job done for two hours' wages. My legit bosses aren't filthy rich, but they're doing very well by competing fairly and doing business above-board.

As far as I know, my previous employer's still running around town pretending to be a legitimate business owner. He always claimed to be bidding on big crew jobs and believing that a guy with no employees, no insurance and no payroll responsibillities could muster, train and keep as many workers as he'd need if any big account ever came through.

Maybe bored guy who doesn't want to get a job and has delusions of grandeur is a better way to describe him.
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post #26 of Old 11-16-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat View Post
It's been about 6 months since I've checked in here and I'm happy I did because you gave me a good laugh today. LOL!

To answer a few of your questions:

1. Molly Maids charges what it does because they are a real business. You have admitted that you are not.

2. You say you can charge half of what real companies charge and do a better job. That's your opinion. I'm not sure that your clients would agree with you though.

Here is the question. Why would you clean an entire residence for $30 or $40? Wouldn't your time be better spent doing something less back breaking? You are working for slave wages.

Why not just take the time to start a real company? It just does not make sense, what you are doing. Yes, insurance IS expensive but well worth the expense.

3. My company has a minimum of $125 for biweekly cleanings. And that price would be for a condo or apartment. Our smaller homes start at $135 and go up. Our average is $165 - $180 for biweekly cleanings.

Yes, my company is licensed, bonded and insured. I have employees. I have a real business, almost 2 years old.

You would do better to go get a job at McDonalds for what you are charging (and I'm not totally convinced that your note is real. You strike me as a spammer seeking attention).

Cat I've only been registered on this site for 24 hours and after looking at your post activity I can already see: you're arrogant. Invalidating other peope's businesses and business practices does not make yours more legitimate so please back off of the poo-pooing. I can see you haven't posted on here in a number of years so my guess is you're not around anymore anyway.

Working for 1 hour, husband an wife getting paid $30 is still $15 an hour. Yes, it's a hell of a lot less than I would charge but if you've ever faced being homeless before.. $15 is money you didn't have before. Working for Mcdonald's you'd make about 8 bucks or less an hour depending where you live and then you can expect them to take taxes of about 20-30% meaning that you are generating about $5.60 in income per hour of work. $15 sounds pretty good right about now.

Again: I went from almost homeless to a 6 figure business in 4 years. I have done it, others will too.
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post #27 of Old 11-16-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat View Post
It's been about 6 months since I've checked in here and
3. My company has a minimum of $125 for biweekly cleanings. And that price would be for a condo or apartment. Our smaller homes start at $135 and go up. Our average is $165 - $180 for biweekly cleanings.

Yes, my company is licensed, bonded and insured. I have employees. I have a real business, almost 2 years old.
.
Cat, your business is based in Maryland. The median income is $69,272

The poster for this thread lives in Austin, TX. Have you been to Austin?

The state of Texas is HUGE in population and geographical land area compared to Maryland, yet Its Per Capita personal income in 2009 was $36,484, ranking 29th in the nation. Someone making $36k a year would spend 3000 a year or 8% of their income vs only 4% in your state for your services. Austin has a per capita income of about $29,000 which would mean they would spend 10% of their income to hire you, cat.

Cleaning prices will vary from LA to Seattle to Miami and yes, Austin, TX
Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I would agree that Merry Maids and other companies charging more for their services does not mean they do a better job. In contrast, I've had customers choose some home depot day laborer's wife to come by, break their stuff and do a crappy job for $50 and then they call me to pay double. Cheap can be expensive but not always.. People come to us for quality at an affordable price (which is also synonymous to a fairer price in my opinion).

Pricing services need to be in line with what the AVERAGE person can afford in your market unless you are focusing on high end clientele only. In that case you better have your ducks in a row.
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post #28 of Old 04-30-2013, 10:36 AM
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silverdot U HAVENT A CLUE! im sure by now u are OUT OF BUSINESS.
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post #29 of Old 05-02-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bluehawaii07 View Post
people like that silverdot guy is what has prevented me from getting a few accounts as I'm new, one month into it.

apartment cleanings and realtors around here in dallas rarely want to pay as i am running into the realtors and even commercial businesses saying, they have a girl or guy doing the cleaning. Majority are not "legit" businesses.

To get a few jobs, I had to price the job the same and sell myself. I provide very high quality and I aim to charge slightly above average for that quality but with the slugs who are illigitimate "businesses" without insurance etc, it is very difficult to do that.

I aim to expand and grow into becoming a major company here in the Dallas area, hiring employees, sponsoring charities etc with my profits. but, those slugs make it that much harder, just for the underneath the table buck.
I hear ya. I am in DFW as well. It is tough, the competition from the "under the table" people is vicious. It's very hard to sell your service and it's worth in a climate such as this. This poster makes me believe she is one of the ones we fight so hard against.

I recently cleaned a home here in Fort Worth. The woman wanted something for nothing, she literally wanted me to clean with a toothbrush and wipe down all of her mini-blinds by hand with a sock. She kept telling me she would be doing a white glove test after I left. I was only charging her 75.00 for 3 hours for a monthly clean. ( senior disc) She wanted me to be there all day for 75.00. It's the under the table crews that have begun this insanity. They usually work hourly and will gladly get on ladders to clean floor to ceiling mirrors and clean with toothbrushes. I will not, I have other homes and they are happy, but need me to be there on time.

She cancelled. Hopefully she can find someone willing to work for 9/10 an hour and all day. It will not be me. I am over this type of competitive, lowballing, crap-- and the crazy customers they have taught that all cleaning companies are servants- not business owners.
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post #30 of Old 05-02-2013, 03:20 PM
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This is an interesting thread...but what I don't understand is why not everyone is buying bonding and insurance...it costs me $47 a month. Also, as far as workman's comp there's pay as you go plans through quickbooks that are 6% of payroll. Its cheaper then people think to become a legitimate business, but why anyone would want to clean for $10 an hour is beyond me. After fuel expenses, advertising expense, cleaning supplies and equipment, what are you making like $7 an hour or LESS? Lets say you clean a house for 5 hours for $50....it costs you at least $5 in gas on average round trip. Then another few bucks for supplies and equipment and advertising and your down to at least $40. Now your at $8 an hour. Do you have any overhead? What about the cost to run your dryer 24/7 to clean all those hand towels...this can easily add $100 a month to your gas bill. What about the time you spend on the phone with clients, or the time driving to the client? Add this in and your down to $6 or $7 an hour. Even if you charge $15 an hour....well guess what now your down to $10-11 an hour after all expenses and time are accounted for...you could be working at Costco talking to your friends and goofing around and make $11 an hour.

Last edited by MajesticMaids; 05-02-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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post #31 of Old 05-02-2013, 04:23 PM
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Ellen Rohr has 2 great book on how to set your rates. At present you are not makeing enough to pay for your internet service.

And you are a scab! You are preventing others from making a living doing cleaning by being so cheap! Raise your rates, if you are as good as you say, you will not notice any slow times.

True. I charge more than most "scabs" here in DFW, and my loyal customers are willing to pay for my professionalism and expertise.
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post #32 of Old 05-05-2013, 03:58 AM
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A lot of home cleaning clients don't care about the money, they just want a reliable service they trust, and that's who the residential franchises target. Individuals working under the table are a disaster waiting to happen, but I guess in some commercial environments that doesn't matter.
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post #33 of Old 05-06-2013, 10:10 AM
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The people that shop for food at Wholefoods do not shop at Walmart. You can either be a Wholefoods business or a Walmart business. Be different, grow raving fans, have critics that don't understand your business, and make tons of money then give it all away.

We don't even worry about the under cutters, they can keep their clients.

-Crista
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post #34 of Old 06-14-2013, 02:29 AM
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we have only weekend to enjoy the life. If you want to make a plan to enjoy with your friend then you can throw roulette party which is very cheap and entertaining event. If you need any guidance regarding this. then click here: http://www.technosb.com/roulette/roulette-sites and check the videos and get ideas for hosting a roulette party.
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